| Crime is a result of Apartheid! |
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Wednesday, 09 September 2009 13:46
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I know the headline is controversial in its own right, but yesterday wifey and I had a meaningful debate, about the guy who left S.A for Canada because too many black people mistook his freedom for an opportunity to relapse theirs. Let's sit back and watch my train of thought for a moment, it's ugly, but its necessary in these times as Malema can throw around racist comments at will and the corporate world is still dominated by a white, old male stuck in his ways, let me have my 2c worth at this controversial topic.
When Russia got their freedom, a spike of crime ensued, still today Russia is the home of human trafficking, not black people, but Russian white guys who exploit other people to get money. India's slums are of the most well known crime hot spots in the world, crime is an everyday commodity if we can call it that. Across Europe in slum areas, you can't even park your car outside at night, as it will either be vandalized or stolen, yet again, white people doing the deed. The greatest crimes in our history were committed by whites; most violent crimes are and still are committed by Africans up north. So if we sit back and think about our situation, we are all capable of crime, all colours, and the motivation changes from region to region and from colour to colour. Serial killers are mostly white across the world, haynes crimes are mostly committed by white people, and crimes with the intent on getting money are the sole responsibilities of black people, or non-white people right across the world. The greatest crime the white man did was to come on foreign soil and take what is not theirs, make it theirs, that's call stealing. They oppressed people, kept them from education, this resulted in a huge amount of black South African's not being able to make a good living for themselves as white people are doing, simply because education and opportunities were kept from them for generations! If anyone refutes this fact you seriously need to check yourself and go delve deep into the history archives and look at socio-economic issues faced today in our country. Crime levels are up there with the best of them simply because the people doing the crime, predominantly black people, are fed up with being paid R800 p/m for cleaning someone else's house, they are sick of getting the short end of the money stick. And this is where some people would like to see black people exactly where they are, in a dead end job not being able to feed their family of 6 in their shanty. Its a disappointing issue but a direct result of years and years worth of wrong on the part of our white counterparts, you simply cannot refute this! If we were all free in 1800's and everyone got opportunities and education, poverty would probably have been eradicated by now. But these "look down" actions comes from the Bible days where it was not from white to black, but from kings to slaves, kings to common people, rich to poor. The roles have since changed and still are in use today where rich look down on poor, no matter the color, white look down on black (rich black that is). Apartheid is an ugly part of our history, and crime is the birth child of this campaign. Crime stems from poverty, which was created by that in power, how come those in power have no poverty whatsoever? If you see a white bum on the street, 90% of the time he messed his life up. If you see a black bum on the street, 90% of the time he had no life to begin with! Apartheid regime messed everything up for everyone, even for white people, because now they are at the receiving end of reverse racism, so if this cycle continues, we might see more whites doing crime. South Africa is marred by racism from both sides, man we even had a slate of xenophobic times, we are a young nation, our aim as a family unit in this country is to constantly better our way of living, and this too is the aim of a common criminal to improve his/her life. The criminal steals and hijacks and does crimes to elevate his/her livelihood, the same as we do when we sit in traffic on our way to work.
Apartheid took that right from people to get the grassroots upon which to build their livelihoods, that education, that certain job, that freedom to go and find work for a Baas that will allow these people to put money away for their children. It is a sad and controversial statement that I make but I’ll make it anyway, “white people in the world has taken opportunities for themselves and left all other’s for dead” in this light I do not want white people to feel threatened or bad for that matter, this is merely to impose the notion that white people of the past have carried out processes that leads to today’s lack of black development in communities, to today’s lack of black education, today’s lack of black professionals offering services their white counterparts can offer, simply because the white counterparts have had the opportunity, and the blacks were kept from that opportunity. And seeing that this depressing issue is slowly being rectified by throwing, yes literally throwing unfit black professionals into positions only white people can succeed in simply because they were skilled to fulfill that role. I’ve so much to say but so little time I was writing this in between meetings. I’d appreciate any feedback both constructive on deconstructive.
The OS is outie, I’d like to hear your opinions on this, also please specify your race, for interest sake.
Comments (29)
  written by Shell01, September 09, 2009
I think most South Africans know that the majority of violent crimes in SA today are done by black people. Unfortunately, black culture says you are not allowed to look better than everyone else. You are not allowed to be rich, even if you did it by your own effort. You are not allowed to invent anything. They are ruled by communist beleifs, where ambition is looked down upon. In some black communities, people beleive a rich person has achieved his/her wealth through witchcraft. I studied anthropology, so I know what I'm talking about. Apartheid is not the only cause of black people's poverty. It is also their worldviews and culture.
As for your comment on the Bible, the Bible says a debtor made into a slave had to be treated as part of the family. We were not allowed to mistreat our slaves. And the Bible clearly tells us to show no favouritism to anyone. History does have lessons we must learn, but we must stop focusing on the past. Focus on finding ways to improve the present.
written by Language Girl, September 09, 2009
It's all about being proactive, in everything. It's very easy to say 'poor me', and blame the past, very hard to pick yourself up and actually get on with it. The rewards of actually choosing to be the driver of your life, and acting instead of reacting are immense.
It takes courage and determination - qualities which are way too often replaced by guns and pathetic excuses for crime.
written by Language Girl, September 09, 2009
Mikezilla found out that Huntley dude wasn't white LOL. I'm white. But somewhere back i might be part Armanian LOL.
I'm an English, Irish, Lithuanian, French, South africa. And I have Arabic blood going further back.
written by OS GIKEN, September 09, 2009
OMG - all the "get over the past" comments are really ignorant from grown people as yourselves. Thus I spacifically said state your race. Funny enough how these statements would ONLY come from whites. To me it looks like some white people cannot accept the wrongs of the past, saying a stupid thing like black people had 15 years to get their act together is really ignorant - quite silly I might say, white people messed up black people's lives for the past 500 years!!! Not only black people but ALL enslaved people, lets remember, WHITE Jews were also enslaved.
Ya'll all missing the point here, crime is not right, nor is it JUSTIFYABLE. BUT, the preverbial BUT - you have to agree that the AFTEERMATH of APARTHEID is clearly CRIME, unEDUCATED blacks, POVERTY, White collar crime, etc etc. The problem I have with most of my white counterparts is that they totally disown the Apartheid, as if it never happened. It happened, and the results are here for all to see, Soweto, Cape Flats, Gughuletho etc. No where will you see white, poverty stricken people, Brakpan whites live in houses!!! :grin Whether you like my tone or not, this is a fact, and you ALL know it!
written by OS GIKEN, September 09, 2009
No...your mom has options, eish we can go so deep into this discussion, your mom can live with you! Whereas a black woman would have found herself on the streets as her family is on the streets or shelter as well...GO FIGURE, apartheid messed a lot of things up for everyone, mostly black, oppressed people...face the truth! errm...truth and reconciliation? :zzz
written by Dissol, September 09, 2009
Whaaaaaaat?
Race: Human There is so much in SA which is reminiscent of post Berlin Wall East Germany. No races involved. There was a ruling elite, and they really messed up the rest of the country. All the good jobs were reserved for them. They had little contact with the outside world. They had low crime levels. Then the Wall came down. Crime went through the ceiling. Mary of the old communists were attacked. Communists had almost no employment opportunities. (they all dearly knew who was who). After a few years, many people were pining for the old system. Any problem was blamed on the old system. There are still problems these. But they are coming right. I think South Africa will go the same route. Men have stolen land of other men for thousands of years all over the world: look at Palestine / Israel or the Zulu's or the British Empire, or the Roman Empire, or the Ottoman Empire. Look at Scotland, Ireland, England - all has been stolen at different times by different people. Democracy is still a relatively new system. Look at now almost every society has discriminated against women. Why try to apportion blame? Does that help with the solution?
written by ShackledMuse, September 09, 2009
I agree with u, os. Apartheid DID mess it up for everybody. So much so that it still exists and is still a big part of our daily life, in one way or another. 15yrs might sound like enough time, But its really not. If 15years is long enough for black people to "get their act together" why is it not long enough for white people to change their friggen views about everyone not white??
and since abort likes the crime stats so much, here's 2 points for you to consider: 1. There are roughly 40mil non-white people in south africa, and about 4mil white people. So OBVIOUSLY the scales would be slightly tipped as to who commits most crime. 2. Crime stats ARE NOT worse now than they were 20 or 30 years ago. Why, u may ask? its all in the media coverage my dear. Today, almost everything gets reported. Thats the beauty of it. Go through the archives and tell me how many news clippings you can find from the apartheid regime reporting that Mr. White Cop So and So raped Thandi and her 3 toddlers before leaving them for dead. Usually when i'm asked about race i'll reply i'm south african. But for OS's purposes, i'm white.
written by barrmar, September 09, 2009
We have almost as many people in SA as in the UK but our economy is a fraction of the size. Part of the reason is because apartheid prevented most from participating except as labourers.
The Gini coeficient in South Africa (the discrepancy between the incomes of the rich and the poor) is one of the highest in the world. This has not changed much since the death of Apartheid. Os - you are right in many ways. Apartheid did limit educational and economic opportunities. Unfortunately, the post apartheid governments thus far have failed to change much in the lives of the poor. A small elite have managed to enrich themselves, but the majority have not benefitted economically. The ANC elected Zuma as their leader to redress this, but change is not in evidence. At least not yet. Crime was high before the fall of apartheid - something many seem to have forgotten. There are many examples of countries that have experienced radical change which was followed by a ma*sive rise in the rates of crime. Dissol mentioned these earlier. Perhaps this is part of the legacy of the past. The issue now is to move beyond blame and find ways to solve the problems.
written by Koo, September 10, 2009
Its easy to blame the past and use it as an excuse for unacceptable and savage behaviour. "The white man coming onto foreign soil and taking what was not theirs"???? Ask yourself where Africa would be had this not happened. Would it have changed at all from 300 years ago?
written by MikeZilla, September 10, 2009
Ok I'm trying hard to stay out of this conversation, but Koo are you seriously saying that black people around the world should be thanking the western world for selling them into slavery, destroying whole cultures and tribes and taking land by force and then allowing them to work on it for food and shelter. I should probably thank the apartheid government for moving my grandfathers into townships too else i may have succumbed to my base desires. Our history is what it is there are parts of it we wish we could change but alas we can't. Without a western influence this would be a very different country and continent better or worse we'll never know. However South Africans must realize that everything is organic and you reap what you sow. The majority of South Africans were treated as sub human by the previous fascist regime, forced to live in conditions worse than animals and now we're surprised that people are a little unhappy. I don't condone violent crime but we can't stick our head in the sand and pretend we're living in a normal country, South Africa is very very unique. I hear talk of savagery and barbarism and I think about the french revolution where the ruling cla*s were guillotined daily for the entertainment of the peasantry. We have made the first peaceful transition from a dictatorship to a democracy in history we are in uncharted territory lets start working on the social roots of this problem and stop this pointless circular debate about crime the fruit of these social problems
written by Koo, September 10, 2009
No Mike I'm not saying that at all. What I'm saying is this is the way it is, its happened. Its done. There are countries all over the world - not just in Africa that have been colonised by the British, Americans, French, Portuguese. I'd like you to take a look at other countries, such as India. See how people live there - we know nothing about abject poverty and appalling conditions. Apartheid was a terrible thing. But its done, its over. There is NO excuse for crime.
How can you say three grown men gang raping a baby is the result of apartheid? Of people (white and black) getting raped, murdered, tortured every day in this god forsaken place - how on earth can you say this is as a result of apartheid. There's all this talk of rebuilding the nation, of working together to make a better place for us all. Posts like this, totally belie that very notion. I'm so sick of people casting blame and using white people, or apartheid as a crutch or excuse for every bad thing thats ever happened. How long ago did it all end? Do people not have the same opportunities now. Oh wait, no they don't - we have a wonderful policy called affirmative action, not even thinly disguised racism. Don't you think its time people worked on creating a better future instead of harping on the past and using it as an excuse for every ill that has ever befallen them. Oh and OS???? There is no such thing as reverse racism - racism is RACISM full stop.
written by The Pianist, September 10, 2009
OS, this is my final say. There is always going to be right and wrong. The Shaka Zulu era had nothing to do with Apartheid. People are good and bad.
With regards to you saying my mom has options, how about don't talk about what you know nothing of? Shelter is her option. She can't live with me, in fear that she'll harm me. Crime, like Apartheid, is a disease in this country that needs dealing with. NO justification should be acceptable. I look around at people I know, from poor to wealthy, and none of them have resorted to crime because of apartheid. They work hard, with new opportunities.
written by OS GIKEN, September 10, 2009
OMG Koo, are you serious? Having a little David Bullard in you I see. For a grown woman that's a trully stupid remark to make. By stating this you acknowledge apartheid and you agree it has some good equally than it has some bad - you are also clearly stating that AFRICANS are dumb and would not have found the wheel otherwise. Let me enlighten you a bit, Egyptians are Africans, thus, clearly accepted as the most elite group of people who invented and invented. Let's not even delve deeper into the history of Africa...do yourself a favour and go read up on Ancient African tradition, see how they got things done you'll be surprised.
Dissol my aim is not to apportion blame, although its a fact that Whites oppressed blacks and now we are ALL sitting with the problem - stop saying its "blaming or focusing on the problem" and "start focusing on ways to rectify it" the very essence that the problem was created first needs to be understood accepted, not by blacks, but by WHITES...the greatest stupidy is to NOT talk about the wrongs of the past, because its a shamefull heritage that many whites do not want to owe up to, pointing to ANC led governments and 15 years etc. Please wake up! Koo says there are NO excuses for crime...Apartheid regime was criminal, when you speak of crime do you only refer to blacks attacking whites...lol genius you seriously need something! How can you be sick of people blaming apartheid...good lord, apartheid is to be blamed for 90% of SA's problems, coming from a white woman this is understandable, whereas a non white would think different, you need to accept that whites have done the damage in history, that is the ultimate fact, a fact white people cannot even talk about as they were not persecuted...finish and klaar! :eek :eek OMG you say AA is a bad thing, good word...you thoughts are entrenched in APARTHEID, you would not complain have you lived in APARTHEID as you would have had opportunities just like AA and BEE...don't be foolish, you know full and well the aims and reasons for AA and BEE...you were advantaged, now your advantage is over, its other people's chance, how can you not understand a simple thing like this? :eek :eek Piano - so don't then say your mom has no house when you clearly dont' disclose the full reasons for her NOT having a house, lol, jee whizz how you guys debate ya'll are never going to make it on the OS debate squad. A normal daughter would have had her mom move in with her, but you just happened to keep out the details that actually make sense...go figure! :cry :? :grin Well some black SA"s still don't have the opportunity...accept it, coz apartheid took it away, ANC led govt. is trying to give it back, with resistance from guess who...  :p
written by Koo, September 10, 2009
Don't put words in my mouth OS when you clearly don't have the capacity to understand what I'm talking about. I never for once said Africans are stupid, don't you dare try to say I said that. For a man of any age, this just illustrates your lack of understanding and inability to see anything you don't want to see.
You banged on ad nauseum about how whites have kept opportunities away from blacks, I was pointing out that those are all opportunities we put there in the first place. Apartheid is not to blame for 90% of SA's problems - people with a s**tty attitude, who want everything handed to them on a platter, even if they have to steal it, without doing a day's honest work is the problem. Since when do I refer to only blacks attacking whites. Why don't you actually read my last comment OS - that means not just scan over the words, but actually try to absorb them, before talking the rubbish you have in this last comment. I've always thought of you as presenting a lucid and reasonable comment - this last one of yours really doesn't do you any favours.
written by Koo, September 10, 2009
OS btw...
well clearly YOU Need to READ the comments made, matter of fact go read yours, not just scan through them :eek go read them, and read what your saying. Also learn to think before you write a comment...and how people would perceive it please, oh well oh well...the age thing always seems to count against me...maybe your getting too old to actually remember what crap your talking about, white ppl putting the opportunities there in the first place, are you real? :eek :eek :eek :p
written by Bianca212, September 10, 2009
Os- I am not going to wade in on the white/black thing here but I am going to wade in on your response to piano. "A normal daughter would have their mother move in with them?" What the hell? Did you read the part where she said her mother was a danger to her? The reason for being homeless is irrelevant- the fact is that there are white people out there who are homeless, just as there are black people and coloured people and indian people who are homeless for a vast array of reasons ranging from illness to poverty to alcoholism, to violence and about 47 other reasons in between! It's difficult to understand from the comfort of our cushy worlds, but thats not an excuse for ignorance!
written by Bianca212, September 10, 2009
OS BTW - eish Bianca read before you comment, shows IGNORANCE On your part fool!
Piano did not disclose the full extent to her mom's "issues" before I made the comment, only after :p What crap you talking about - let's say in a perfect world her mom was not "a danger" to her, she would not have been homeless. So, either get in on the white/black thing or get home - less, getit? :grin :grin :grin
written by Bianca212, September 10, 2009
The legacy of aparhteid, is poverty, crime,major inequalities within the country. Apartheid gave us sandton but it also gave us Alex.that we can never deny.
Yet the big question is what have we done since? Theres a need for basic services; education,water, roads housing etc. This needs to be met. Having attitudes that yo are better than the "other" . the "other" is sjust savage barbarian ,waiting to skew you is not constructive. Alotof white people,not all, alot do not want to own up to the legacy of apartheid.That is true, that attitude is actually hampering reconciliation and nation building. But yet the big question is what are south africans,both white black and whatever are doing to build the country now and to lessen the impact of apartheid for the next generation of south africans? what we are we doing to improve our lives,what are we doing to cut down on crime? Both as individuals and as a country. Blaming crime on "black savages",does not help,for many of those savages their lives could have been different if the socio - economic status was different. But what is been done to help people who find themself in the same economic depression that their grandparents were in? As much asther's equal opportunity ,we have a lot of work to do to better our lives and those around us.Hence we dont need ministers who buy 1million rand cars but ministers who will pay for 1 million houses, we don't need anti-black attitude but attitudes that say how do we connect with the "other" and also see him/her as a human being. anyhow nice debate you are having os.sweet. Mr.P
written by Paralyzer, September 10, 2009
OS btw...Para - you had to state your race
 LOL just kidding we know your black. But I'm trying to show ALL whites that as it stands now, 1 white, 1 black and 2 Coloured ppl agreed with OS...All other's who did not agree are white. Go figure! We need just one more white person to agree pls :grin . We CANNOT focus on the future and on eradicating 1mill cars bought by ministers because there is still this ideology shared by whites that blacks DON"T deserve what they have now. Ministers are actually given the right to buy cars that expensive, its their right, not that its right :eek . When are white people goign to own up and stop saying "forget about the past and look forward" and "when will you get over the Apartheid thing we all know it happened OK!!!" saying things like this just diminishes Mandela's legacy, all of ANC's legacy, all of Apartheid victims' legacy...we don't need to ponder on what happened, we need to recognise what happened, respect it, recognise its consequences that we are facing today based on some white ppls actions in the past...recognise it white ppl!!!
written by Paralyzer, September 10, 2009
i agree we need to recognise.we need to act,and say this what happened in the past but this is what we are doing now
written by Bianca212, September 10, 2009
Oh Os, you poor thing- calling me ignorant, the controversy you have caused must have made your head spin because clearly you didn't read your own comment. The time stamps say it all. Your comment came after she "disclosed":
10-09-2009 10:57 Pianist wrote:With regards to you saying my mom has options, how about don't talk about what you know nothing of? Shelter is her option. She can't live with me, in fear that she'll harm me. Then at 10-09-2009 12:20 you wrote  iano - so don't then say your mom has no house when you clearly dont' disclose the full reasons for her NOT having a house, lol, jee whizz how you guys debate ya'll are never going to make it on the OS debate squad. A normal daughter would have had her mom move in with her, but you just happened to keep out the details that actually make sense...go figure. And that is the last I have to say on the matter.
written by Bianca212, September 10, 2009
Dissol by the way.
I have never said that Apartheid does not have consequences. Go and read my comments again... Apartheid left the country savaged and divided, of course it did. It was a disgusting regime. But we have to move forward. We need to study history to ensure that are do not allow ourselves to repeat the some mistakes all over again. But history shows us that it is not all whites stealing from blacks. History shows us that when people label themselves and others as different, and live their lives within these tight labels then it divides people, whether those labels are black, white, British, African or Indian, Catholic or Protestant, Christian or Muslim, Scottish, English. History also shows us that the great people who led people to ways of peace and reconciliation such as Gandhi, Mandela, Jefferson etc. Moved on from mere labels and rather saw humanity as equal.
written by OS GIKEN, September 11, 2009
LOL Bianca...YOU POOR THING, call me ignorant LOL - Jeez I'm sorry for making you look stuuupid AGAIN but read the second comment...a DAY before she discloses!!!
:eek :eek :eek :eek :eek Like I said yesterday, do you feel stuuupid now? :grin :grin
written by The Pianist, September 11, 2009
Wow, i read the insult. Thanks OS
 How Christian of you
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The issue is the "I have the right to murder you for a cellphone because I've been oppressed" which is bull as the guys doing the robbing and killing had the last 15 years of NOT being oppressed, supported by the government of HIS choice (yeah right, as if Gov's gonna want to do anything for him)
Most of the criminals are in the age group where they started school when the ANC took over and gave them all the nice schools to go to. They failed at the schools not because of the white man oppressing them and not letting them learn but for other reasons. Anyone starting school at age 6 has the same start and chance to go through school.
Also, a tip to every criminal that does violence: If you kill everyone you rob who the hell are you going to rob once all the victems are dead?